DKC Atlas Forum

[request dude]

Well, as I am new on this forum, I want to start on it with a topic we are familiar with
Everybody (or at least many of us) should have played DKC3 for SNES and tried to pass it all (either with the 103% or the 105%), including the bonuses, DK coins, and (in my case) the letters of each level
The ones who have played this game may know that on the level "Rocket Rush" (for the ones who dont know, is the "last" level of the game before the 2º battle with K,Rool), there is something that is disturbing everybody (or at least to me )...

WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE G LETTER ON THIS LEVEL????!!!!

Well, the other day I was trying (with no results, of course) to find it... and after a compulsory playthorugh, I had a brilliat theory to find out where is it:
1) Somehow, the creators of the game just "forgot" to put it in
2) (This is the real one) I know that on DKC3 for GBA the G letter is clearly visible to find, and according to other games made from GBA taken from SNES' ones, the letter has to be in the same position as it is in GBA, no?
I mean, take this examples:
* The bonuses in GBA are in the same place as they are in SNES
* The DK coins, the same
* The enemies (?), the same
So, the letters MUST be in the same place

If anyone can send me a picture of where the G letter is in GBA, I will try to find it on SNES
If not, please anyone send me another theory, because this f*@#€¬g letter is pissing me off

I thanks you in advance, see ya!!!

[Cody]

There is no G, as odd as it is.

I did find one glitch unintentionally while experimenting, too!

[Blaziken257]

I heard that the European version of DKC3 had a G.

[Qyzbud]

Hey, that's strange indeed. I never knew that the US version had no .

Here are a couple of quick snaps to show where it is in the EUR version 1.0:

Wassup, G?

dkc3_rocket_rush_g_pal.png (43.57 KiB) Viewed 543303 times

Here's the same spot on the US version 1.0:

Yo G, where you at?

dkc3_rocket_rush_no_g_us1.0.png (19.91 KiB) Viewed 543298 times

I'll take a look at other (JAP) versions to try and figure this out... It's funny to think that they forgot to include the very last KONG Letter of the entire trilogy, eh?

Nicely spotted, request dude!

Oh, welcome to DKC Atlas, too.

[Kiddy14]

Ghonszah! Yay! You're now also at the forums =)

That's indeed something I've always hated. Why the PAL Version has it but NTSC doesn't? Ugh...
Anyway, I wonder if it is in the Japanese version, it should be at least in one.

By the Way, not everything in the GBA version is where the SNES version was. For example, a Knocka is located beneath the semi-circle bananas in Tidal Trouble, where in the SNES there isn't anything. The GBA Rucket Rush is WAAAAY different than its SNES counterpart, and it doesn't have a Midway Barrel. =P

EDIT: Here's Rainiac666's take on the GBA version of Rocket Rush, it is indeed a G, but it's located in another place =P

[Qyzbud]

Looks like the JAP versions (SNES) both have a G, so it's only the US one where it's missing. Or should I say missin'.

Well, as I'm sure some of you would expect, I'll now pop over to the Differences between revisions thread to add this to the DKC3 US v1.0 checklist!
EDIT: Actually, it would make a whole lot of sense for me to merge this thread into the differences thread. I'll do that. *done*

[Kiddy14]

You should also add the Weird Criss Kross Cliffs' added Barrels and Buzzes in PAL and Japanese versions

-bug(?) causes barrels to shoot straight up if held during a jump attack

I don't understand, what does it mean? =S

[Qyzbud]

Oh, what I meant by that is as follows:
If you jump on a baddie while holding a barrel, the barrel will launch straight up at high speed, never to be seen again...
I should reword what you quoted; I agree that it's hard to understand.

I've added to DKC3's US version 1.0 (the only US version) checklist:
-no KONG Letter 'G' in Rocket Rush ...thanks, request dude! (discuss this)
-fewer red Buzzes in Criss Kross Cliffs ...these were added to other releases to fix a bug (more info)

Also; I mentioned the CKC Buzzes just now... but what's this about about extra barrels?

[Kiddy14]

Ooops, I was thinking in other things, there's nothing about barrels xD Sorry.

If you jump on a baddie while holding a barrel, the barrel will launch straight up at high speed, never to be seen again...

Oh thanks, yeah, at first I understanded that if you jumped into a baddie and then enter a barrel, it would shoot you inmediatily, which was weird =P

[Qyzbud]

That's indeed something I've always hated. Why the European Version has it but the American doesn't? Ugh...

Wait; so you knew about this, and didn't tell us?!
How could you.

[Kiddy14]

A long, long time ago... (about 2 months =P) I watched Quirino26's take on a Rocket rush challenge, I saw he had the G in the level and since he's from the Netherlands, I thought he may have the PAL version, but then I completely forgot, until the Request Dude started the thread =)

Anyway another thing I've noticed is that Pot Hole Panic is different also in PAL!

The Booty Bird is moved a little further.
There isn't any G! But it can be in the Booty Bird =)

Watch this, and this.

[Qyzbud]

Ah, nicely spotted. I'll have to add that now, too!

I do wonder why they changed some of these things... there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to this particular change. It's a shame for the non-US players, who miss out on that banana bunch.


Edit: I noticed another important difference; here's a quick layout comparison...

(please excuse the crude nature of these layouts)

Original layout, near the end of Pot Hole Panic: DKC3 US v1.0

Pot-Hole-Panic-end-area-ori.png (81.35 KiB) Viewed 543257 times

Revised layout for all other releases (EUR 1.0, JAP v1.0 & v1.1)

Pot-Hole-Panic-end-area-rev.png (87.05 KiB) Viewed 543258 times

As you've probably spotted, the other difference is that in the revised layout, a Buzz is guarding the area to the far right, in place of the Kuchuka.

[request dude]

Thanks a lot Kiddyy14 (or should I call you talaivaneizer ), this video of Rainiac doing "Rocket Rush" in GBA cleared me up some thoughts that were confusing my mind
by the way, I've read some comments after mine, and my theory was dropped as I could see...
Aparentlly the eurpoean version HAS a G, while the USA's one doesnt... How careless where the designers of DKC3 in USA for not putting the G!!

Then I will start another topic with more differences, but this time on DKC2

And thanks everybody for welcoming (is it well said ) to the forum, Im really glad!

[Qyzbud]

I will start another topic with more differences, but this time on DKC2

All differences between revisions for DKC, DKC2 and DKC3 belong in this topic. Thanks.

[Kiddy14]

I always thought a Kuchuka was guarding that Bonus in all revisions! I couldn't see it in Quirino26's video.
The GBA version seems to follow the NTSC version, since it has the G over the red buzz, and the Booty Bird is next to it guarding the Banana Bunch. And it has the Kuchuka =)

EDIT: I think one of the reasons they changed it in later releases it's because the game HORRIBLY LAGS in this part, usually if all 3 Kopters appear on screen, with Squitter, Kiddy, Dixie, the G and the Red Buzz. Well, it lags in my SNES, and no, it's not a bootleg =P

[Qyzbud]

Actually you're quite right; there is considerable lag if you fire a few of Squitter's webs at this point, so maybe that was their reason. The GBA version's use of the original layout also suggests that perhaps it was due to technical limitations on the SNES. (or maybe that's just the version the port's dev team had handy at the time...)

Does it lag on GBA, if Squitter gets web-happy?

[Raccoon Sam]

Hmm, I think I remember one from DKC3.
In some versions, Criss Kross Cliffs has a Bazuka shooting the barrels down there whereas in some versions it doesn't.

[Qyzbud]

Yeah, there's truth in that. I don't think a Bazuka ever appears at the bottom of CKC in the US release, but in the EUR/JAP versions, you can see him down there firing away. It seems he'll disappear even in these versions if you go through the level a little way and fall back to the start, though. I think he vanishes when you bounce up high enough to collect the upper-most banana in that line of four at the beginning.

Thanks for jogging my memory on this one, Sam!

[Hedonismbot]

I'm impressed. You all found some very interesting differences. I now feel the urge to try out the glitches to see which versions of each game I own. Which brings me to a question: Do we know which versions Nintendo used for the Virtual console release? I live in Europe and the VC release gave me the opportunity to enjoy the trilogy in 60HZ for the first time. But I don't know which exact version it is.

Yeah, I've never even seen one with rainbow colors. How'd you get the special one?!?!?!?

I live in Europe and I always had those rainbow colored ones. I never understood why the US ones had these depressing violet colored buttons. The red/yellow/blue/green combination is also featured on the XBOX 360 controller, I always thought of this as a homage to Nintendo. Well, for all you Americans who have never seen a rainbow colored SNES controller, I made a quick photo of mine:

These button colors originally came from the european SNES logo (pictured below)


Maybe I will add more to the discussion when I played some more DKC.

[Qyzbud]

Do we know which versions Nintendo used for the Virtual console release?

I've verified that the VC download of DKC I received here in Australia was the European V1.1 release - the most recent PAL revision/update. Hold a barrel and jump on a baddy - if the barrel gets launched straight upwards at high speed, you've got the EUR 1.1 version, too. This is all mentioned in post #1.

[Raccoon Sam]

It seems he'll disappear even in these versions if you go through the level a little way and fall back to the start, though.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that's to prevent you from killing him. You can get the keg you're supposed to kill the Koin with and fall back to the very bottom of the stage while still carrying it.

[Qyzbud]

Interesting suggestion, but steel kegs can't kill Bazuka... only TNT can, right?

I think it's to do with the fact that the Bazuka's only there 'for show'. If he were really firing those barrels, they would stop being shot when the Kongs were far enough away... and it would take a fair bit longer when switching between standard/TNT mode. That said, I'm still not sure why it is the way it is.

[Raccoon Sam]

TNT Barrels kill Bazukas alright, but you're never given the change to throw a steel keg towards a Bazuka; no level has steel kegs you can pick up and Bazukas. There is one exception, though. In Tyrant Twin Tussle, you can reach an area that has a Bazuka and pickable steel kegs, but only with the help of Squitter.

You can cheat to get there, though, and upon doing so, this happens.

And yeah, I'm aware of the "If it's not on-screen, it doesn't exist" - rule of the whole DKC series (which would make a great article to write, by the way, heh heh), that for one, allows easy DK Coins and taking animals past their limits.
But your theory still makes sense. In my opinion, Steel Kegs bursting from nowhere looks pretty stupid.

[Qyzbud]

no level has steel kegs you can pick up and Bazukas

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that is pretty hard to believe... just because there's gotta be a steel keg in every level, to defeat the ever-present Koin... but I must say, that video you posted is some good evidence to show that Bazuka was never meant to be hit by a steel keg. Wow... interesting observation, interesting outcome!

(it's actually quite similar to something I noticed in regards to Kopters, but that's something for another topic )

[Raccoon Sam]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that is pretty hard to believe... just because there's gotta be a steel keg in every level, to defeat the ever-present Koin...

Don't forget that you can't pick up Steel Kegs that are shot by other Bazukas, unless they hit a wall.

[The Kirby]

In both revisions of the Japanese version of DKC, every third time Donkey hand slaps an enemy that gives bananas as a reward will be a banana bunch. In all the other versions, the reward is always a SINGLE banana. As if the Japanese version wasn't easy enough.

That version difference with Snow Barrel Blast's Steel Keg bouncing sound effect... I've tested it in all revisions and it sounds the same to me. Although, I do remember it sounding different sometimes. Sometimes it'll sound like a low-metal sound of some sort, and other times it'll sound a bit like water dripping, and I don't think it's dependant on the revision. I'm thinking it's similar to how Rambi's jumping sound effect works in Red-Hot Ride in DKC2; it'll sound different sometimes for some reason

[Qyzbud]

Well I'll be damned... Good observations. I'll check it all out and fix the lists when I wake up tomorrow.

*slumbers*

[Simion32]

Although, I do remember it sounding different sometimes. Sometimes it'll sound like a low-metal sound of some sort, and other times it'll sound a bit like water dripping, and I don't think it's dependent on the revision.

Same here. I think the sound is also dependent on which music the game is playing at the time. Snow levels must use different sound effects, so the "metal" sound is different. The reason it changes is likely because the sound samples are affected by what part of the background music is playing when you throw the barrel.

[Qyzbud]

Okay, makes sense. It actually was the snow levels that I noticed the 'drip' sound in, so I'm inclined to think you fellows are right.

[Kiddy14]

In the PAL version of Rocket Barrel Ride, the penultimate rocket barrel is moved a little to the right, while in NTSC is in the middle of the waterfall.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot In DKC3 also, if you hold a DK barrel in NTSC version with only one kong and jump into a barrel, the DK Barrel would break leaving the free kong static in the barrel =S

By the way, speaking of DK Barrels, have you noticed DKC3's DK barrels don't break when touching the floor? They roll. And the crate in Barrel Drop Bounce is the only one in the entire game! O-o

[Raccoon Sam]

DKC3's DK barrels don't break when touching the floor? They roll.

Not all. There are different DK barrels; some roll, some don't. They have no visual difference.

[Kiddy14]

Can you please tell me one DK barrel in the game that breaks when touching the floor? I mean, all the barrels I've tried don't break, they roll. And in the GBA version all break.

[Kiddy14]

Busy Qizzy again eh? =P
Anyway, 1 day has passed, another excuse to implement that button =)

I've found some prove to the Rocket Barrel Ride differences, as I can see you need proves. Anyway, here's a video of the PAL version, and here's my video of NTSC. I even downloaded the ROM to use the last shortcut! =)

[Qyzbud]

In the European version of Rocket Barrel Ride, the penultimate rocket barrel is moved a little to the right, while in the American is in the middle of the waterfall.

Thanks for the report, and yeah; I've been busy in the last few days. I've checked the videos you linked to, and took a peek at the JAP v1.0 release, and it looks as though this barrel position is another thing that was changed for all versions other than the USA release. The green Buzz which moves up and down above this rocket barrel's blast point has a different behaviour in the USA release compared to the other releases; he guards the ultimate rocket barrel far more diligently!

I assume these changes were made to prevent a player from shooting straight from the penultimate rocket barrel to the ultimate one. Silly change, I say.

I now have a few updates to make to the tallies... Very nice, keep it up guys.

[Stone]

In DKC, you can use the DIDDY-code after getting a game over. After collecting some lives you can press Start and then Select to go back to the map screen to the level you lost your last life. But somehow exiting the bonus room doesn't work for my USA 1.0 ROM

[Qyzbud]

Stone, that's the DYDDY code! There's no 'I' on a SNES controller.

But anyhow, I've heard that Start/Select only works if you get game over in a level you've already completed... It's as though the animal token room is a bonus area within the level you lost your last life in. I'll check this out and see if I can understand if and why the USA 1.0 version may be different.

[Stone]

But anyhow, I've heard that Start/Select only works if you get game over in a level you've already completed...

Damn, you're right!
I just have completed levels on my original catridge, that was the problem. Exiting also works on USA 1.0 when dying in completed levels.
At least you can exit the bonus room without collecting any lives like I discribed in DKC's Minor bugs thread.


I've also fixed the little code problem

[Qyzbud]

Oh dear. I've never seen someone deface their SNES controller just to make a joke like that.

I've discovered something very subtle; in Coral Capers, the USA 1.0 release places the midway/continue barrel 10 pixels lower than all other versions. I noticed this while creating the Coral Capers map, and I though I'd made an error, but when I checked it out, I realised that the barrel's position was different in the revisions. I wonder why they changed its location? Maybe you're able to glitch into the coral somehow...

I'll add this to the checklist.

[Stone]

I've never seen someone deface their SNES controller just to make a joke like that.

Don't worry about the gamepad, it was defaced by Photoshop

And maybe you have to do an extra option in the map viewing system to change between the revisions

[The Kirby]

Rockkroc DIES.png (25.75 KiB) Viewed 540312 times

In both Japanese versions of DKC, you can use Donkey's handslap to kill Rockkrocs while they're "stopped". When a Rockkroc dies, he makes the Krusha dies/Rambi gets hit sound, bounces up, and falls off-screen. You don't get anything for killing one, though (except an easier time.)

[Stone]

Now this is really interresting.
It's time to find the japanese versions on my HDD again.

[gamer_boy997]

Rockkroc DIES.png

In both Japanese versions of DKC, you can use Donkey's handslap to kill Rockkrocs while they're "stopped". When a Rockkroc dies, he makes the Krusha dies/Rambi gets hit sound, bounces up, and falls off-screen. You don't get anything for killing one, though (except an easier time.)

I watched that on a hack, where he completely changed Reptile Rumble and added a timer to Coral Capers, and in Reptile Rumble he put Rockkrocs in. At one part, he did a handslap on one of them, and it went away, at first I thought he just edited it to make it look like that, but it looks like it was real and he was using the Japanese version. I wish that ability was in the North American version, that would have seemed cool.

[The Kirby]

I always found the handslap to be rather useless in the American/European versions, since it's slow to perform and almost universally inferior to the roll, and the single banana rewards are really negligible. It's possible that Rareware noticed this too and decided to make it more useful while making the Japanese version, with the banana bunch reward for every third enemy killed and rockkroc killing.

[Qyzbud]

Hand slapping dormant Rockkrocs disposes of them in the JAP versions? Wow, well noticed! That's really cool. Are you playing through the JAP version(s) to spot as many differences as possible? If so, great. I was thinking of doing that myself, but I haven't yet done so. All these many and varied changes to the JAP versions are quite interesting. When it is created, the "Version Comparisons" section of DKC Atlas (essentially, a more appropriately formatted copy of this topic's first post) will benefit from these discoveries in a big way!

Well discovered, keep it up.

[The Kirby]

Yeah, I highly recommend anyone with a copy of the Japanese versions of DKC to play it, since there are a lot of interesting level-based changes from their western counterparts.

For example, I've discovered SEVERAL changes in DKC JAP's Slipslide Ride alone:

- The zinger between the third and fourth blue ropes has been removed.
- The level's fourth blue kremling has been removed.
- The zinger that hangs around on the ceiling where the blue rope is (directly after the last change) has been removed.
- The third klaptrap after the continue barrel has been removed.
- The second zinger that hangs around the blue rope that leads to the 'N' has been removed (a good choice, considering how that second zinger made it darn near impossible to get up there without getting hit.)

[Kiddy14]

Why did the japanese version got edited so that it would be... easier? I mean...

The extra minecarts removed, zingers removed, kremlings removed, killable rock-krocs, added DK barrels...

[Stone]

I don't understand it either.
First Europe and USA haven't got Super Mario Bros. 2, because the japanese thought this version was too hard for us.
A few years later Rare gave them an easier version of DKC, because they thought it was too hard for the japanese?
Now where are the jump 'n' run experts? Looks like there are none on both sides

[The Kirby]

My guess is that Rare decided to balance the difficulty by the time they began work on the Japanese versions (which were probably developed last.) I don't think they did it because they were trying to appeal to a particular audience, but rather were 'touching' things up when they got the chance to do so. I can certainly understand many of the level-based changes, such as making Mine Cart Carnage considerably easier, since I remember having a heck of a time getting through that years back when I first got the game, and it was only the seventh level!

Since I last posted, I've already found level-based differences in Barrel Cannon Canyon (an extra DK barrel) and Tree Top Town (a missing gnawty and an added barrel which 'catches' you if you miss.) It'd probably be a lot of work trying to find all of these little differences by just playing. Maybe something more... automated might do the trick?

[The Kirby]

Found another change made in the Japanese versions... Manky Kong needs to be jumped on twice by Diddy in order to be defeated. Although, sometimes I noticed that it only requires a single 'Diddy' jump for some strange reason, which is probably a glitch of some kind (ironic, a revision brings its own glitches.)

So yes, folks, there IS something in the Japanese version that makes it harder than the others.

[Qyzbud]

Well I'll be damned. Just when I thought Super Donkey Kong was easier than our western DKCs in every way imaginable...

I must say, this is quite possibly the most intriguing japanification yet (the defeatable RockKrocs being a close second). They actually gave Mankys 'hitpoints'. Sure, an Army will generally take two of Diddy's jumps, but this is quite different. Diddy's jump attack doesn't harm a rolling Army; it just stops the Army's attack pattern temporarily. These tough Japanese Mankys are another kettle of fish er - barrel of bananas - entirely; they may as well each have a health bar.

There are a few other strange things about attacking Japanese Mankys with Diddy. As Kirby mentioned, they seem to (randomly?) take either one jump attack or two. There may be some pattern to this, but I haven't worked it out yet. When knocked back from a jump attack, Diddy gets bumped whichever way the Manky is facing, irrespective of the direction Diddy's facing (unlike when you hit an Army/Krusha/Klump etc.). Also, very rarely a Manky may take two roll attacks. On a rare occasion that Diddy's roll attack is knocked back, his cartwheel will resume at increased speed if you continue to hold Y as he lands from the knock (unlike when you hit an Army/Krusha/Gnawty boss etc.), and will increase again if you hit the Manky for a second time.

Great observation again, Kirby... I'm going to have to update the first post with these recent revelations.